We Like It Raw - Latest Comments in http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

elasticfate — Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:30:23 -0000

Wow, I had an amazing workshop with Terces & Matthew this weekend, and I have to say I fully retract my statements concerning their prices. When I see all the love that they are, how much they give, and what other amazing projects my money is going towards (working in Mexico to help the Catholic Church question why their methods are not helping people, providing funding for Cafe G workers to attend courses, giving them the opportunity to give away entire workshops for free...the list goes on and on and on) there is no doubt in my mind that spending my money there, no matter how much it is, is a good thing. I am eternally grateful for this weekend and spending time with them and the shifts in perception it allowed me to create. I guess it was that old scarcity programming coming back and my ego judging for a minute..the truth is much more beautiful!

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

anonymous — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 02:43:52 -0000

ya, I read the article, it was very good (both sides), but at the same time, I don't agree with doug from the 100% no alcohol standpoint and I'm not sure about you from the alcohol on occasion standpoint... I think it's much deeper than everything I've read in raw food books, but at the same time i definitely don't agree with AA's standpoint. It's very frustating!! :) I love wine, and when I "stay raw" I just drink a lot of wine as the only comfort food available yet still raw and in effect, never lose weight on raw, just gain (alcohol related) fat.... it's something I've observed in other people too so I know I'm not the only one

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

anonymous — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 02:06:55 -0000

I'm totally addicted.... and it happened after being 100% raw for a year or so. I don't have a problem with people saying wine is fine, I just wish there was an alternative to AA...

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

Apple — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 22:14:16 -0000

I would like to note, your pro-alcohol is not like society's pro-alcohol stance. Compared to most people (abusing alcohol is *very* common), we're Puritans (I drink about the same as you--and don't care, I could drop it if I wanted). Normally when I hear "pro-alcohol", I think "apologist for alcohol abuse", but your stance is very sensible (for those who wish to drink) and very supportive of those who don't wish to drink it all. You're just not saying "never". You're not advocating daily wine (which I think is ridiculous, personally). Anyway, just wanted to point out that your "pro-alcohol" stance is very moderate and not like the typical "pro-alcohol" stance that is an extreme (IMO).

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

Dhru Purohit — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 16:35:29 -0000

You weren't really descriptive in your comment. I still have no idea what you're talking about.

Are you saying you don't like people recommending wine? Or that you yourself have an addiction to it?

Can you give some details..

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

anonymous — Fri, 09 Jan 2009 15:17:05 -0000

wow.... obviously no one cares about this issue.

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

Anissa — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 18:38:37 -0000

i eat fairly often at restaurant #2 and agree with all of the comments you made here. EXCEPT that i happen to think they have the best desserts on the planet! sometimes i go there just to get a sweet fix and to feel the community connection that you talked about.

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

Parag Shah — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 08:39:57 -0000

Absolutely fabulous post, and so universally applicable.

I am planning to start a web based community for teaching and learning Java programming. I hope to apply the community experience to my website.

Thanks a lot.

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

elasticfate — Mon, 22 Dec 2008 04:07:15 -0000

"So even though they may invest in their community, it doesn't feel that way when you are there."

I think that pretty much sums it up, because it seems all the community stuff that we each brought up in their defense was mostly stuff outside of the restaurant like farmer's markets and festivals, which is in a more lively public environment.

They do also have a few meetups, which are during the holidays so they get a larger turnout and the energy of people there is greater, which is how #2 feels on any given day. It's like to #2 life itself is a holiday, which is what i love about it.

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

Kevin — Sun, 21 Dec 2008 00:34:31 -0000

Hi! I'm from Charlotte, NC and visited SF last year. As I read through your post I realized that I had been to "Restaurant 2" while visiting. I typically don't focus on restaurants when I'm traveling but I had to experience this one after reading reviews - I could definitely pick up on the vibe/community you discussed even while reading about them online. I was extremely glad I took the time to eat there. Like you pointed out, they introduced me to others sitting at the bar and the overall atmosphere was definitely like you're at a friend's house. They were so friendly and helpful in understanding the food choices (I'm vegetarian not raw). I even took their recommendation to visit an experimental theater production that one of their friends was in. The next time I'm out that way I'll have to try "Restaurant 1". While everyone has their own thoughts about the two, I'm jealous of any city that has even one raw/live food restaurant!

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

anonymous — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 20:54:03 -0000

i guess it's just a run-of-the-mill drinking problem. BUT it only happened when I went raw, and a couple of friends I know have the same problem. The whole "It's alcohol (wine), but at least it's raw...." problem. Does that even make sense?

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

rawfoodrightnow — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 17:31:03 -0000

Hey Anon -

I don't know if you are able to grab a copy of the UK magazine Get Fresh, but I just want you to know and everyone else out there that I wrote a very up front and honest point/counter-point article about drinking alcohol in the Winter 2008 issue that should be hitting newsstands very soon.

In the article I am "pro alcohol". On the "no alcohol" side is Dr. Graham.

I have a lot of thoughts about the issue, and I know there are a LOT of raw people out there who have various levels of "drinking problems" with alcohol.

You are not alone.

And like Dhru I would like to know what kind of "drinking problem" you are having. It would help to know a bit more specifics.

Besides. Dhru's post is all about community, and the alcohol issue is no different. It is time for the raw community to be open and honest and supportive of the entire raw community, so someone like you should not fear talking about something that you want more information about.

~ Heidi

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

Dhru Purohit — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 12:19:27 -0000

Hey Ash. Thanks for your comments bro. You make some fantastic points. Appreciative you dropping by brother.

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

Adam McMillan — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 05:47:56 -0000

Awesome review! I've eaten at both restaurant #1 and restaurant #2 about 4 times each. I agree with you that they are completely different experiences. A few people have suggested that restaurant #1 does in fact interact with its local community, but I think another important point is reflected by the saying "perception is reality". When I've had dinner at Restaurant #1, its been to expose someone who has never tried Raw foods to the experience. I choose Restaurant #1 because the environment is more familiar to them. Modern interior design, candle lit type ambiance, quiet environment are just a few of the things mainstream eaters align with when eating out at a nice restaurant. I do agree with you Dhru when you say the experience is over when you leave the restaurant. The food is very good but the restaurant is a bit cold and the staff has never been friendly when I've been there. Most of the times when I've gone there has been one waitress who seems tired and overworked, and as a result is never too friendly. So even though they may invest in their community, it doesn't feel that way when you are there.

Restaurant #2 is the complete opposite. People are genuinely happy and relaxed but still efficient. Immediately upon seeing them, many will wonder "what are they are on" because they look so happy. You feel community right when you step in the restaurant. People at the bar smiling, laughing with the staff and each other. There is an energy about Restaurant #2 which will draw you back again and again. My fear in taking someone to restaurant #2 as a first experience is that it will reinforce their skewed idea that raw food is only for hippies.

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

Dhru Purohit — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 02:50:43 -0000

Are you talking about on a restaurant level? Or on a personal basis?

Personally Speaking...

Once every 3 to 6 months I might have a half glass of wine at Pure Food and Wine with friends. It's not that I'm against drinking, just personally I can't handle alcohol well. I get a headache even with a few sips. I have a feeling that my system reacts to it as a threat.

I'm sure in a year or so naturally I will let it go completely. But I'm not in a rush. If it happens, it happens.

What sort of drinking problem are you having?

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

anonymous — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 01:19:11 -0000

hey dhru, would love to hear your thoughts on drinking as well as conscious drinking. I don't think it's appropriate to use my real name as many people here know me, but I really want to open a discussion on this matter. Is this against WLIR regulations? I'm really wondering as I've been having a sort of "drinking problem" with raw wine since going raw and wonder if I'm the only one....

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

Debbie — Sat, 20 Dec 2008 01:02:59 -0000

some day I will try both of these, but I already know I will love Cafe G, love their book and their ideology...the raw places in LA I have been to are very distinctive in their "flava" and hard to really compare.. but for creativity Au Lac is off the charts!
love and peas
happy holidays
deb
PS come see my 12 days of raw christmas, a treat a day, for 12 days, all raw, all fun!
www.debbiedoesraw.blogspot.com

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

@gcrush — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 20:33:38 -0000

I LOVE cafe gratitude, it grabbed at my soul the minute I walked in there years ago! the best place ever! I am hoping and hoping that someday they might bring one to reno!

I have a friend who is a tv producer in the world not associated with raw foods, and I shared this little marvel with him, it was so fantastic to have him do a video and love his experience with them!!!

community baby, it's all about community!

so hoping our times and dates match for february!!!!! It would be the best day ever, sitting with philip, gala darling, dhrumil, and so many of the amazing raw food earthlings!!!!

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

elasticfate — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 19:05:04 -0000

Awesome. You have much knowledge. I'll hit you up later. :)

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

Ian Borders — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:57:25 -0000

My farming experience is actually in Northern CA, and a bit in Costa Rica. I also used to own a restaurant in Sebastopol (North Bay) and work as a chef at several in the SF area.

I would love to chat further, you can email me at sproutingseed@gmail.com

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

elasticfate — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:48:26 -0000

I totally agree with what you are saying about the corporate end of the spectrum and paying illegal wages. I just think my personal experience in California has been different from what you have experience in AZ in terms of the small family farms. I am not sure if it is because being organic and health conscious is such a big part of Northern California's values or what, but it does sound different. It would be interesting to talk to more offline. I'd love to hear more about your experiences.

I love Cafe G and their sense of community and openness and their intentions, but food growing aside, there has been a big debate in the local community here in SF about their prices in general, and in their user experience survey, that was the biggest issue the majority of the people had, because many of them had seen them grow and transform. I am not quite sure what to make of it, but I do find their to be very valid points on both sides.

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

Marta Spendowska — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 18:29:22 -0000

Great post, Dhru!
I knew that #2 is cafe Gratitude!
I have their " I Am Grateful: Recipes and Lifestyle of Cafe Gratitude " book and love it!
The other book of the owner , that talks about conscious way of building business from raw food point of view ( and beyond ) is " Sacred Commerce:
Business as a Path of Awakening " by Matthew & Terces Engelhart, Owners of Cafe Gratitude.
Worth reading!

As Peter Ragnar says : "Ideas sell not time " !
Aloha!

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

Sunshine — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:59:43 -0000

Great post! I had figured out what Restaurant 2 is, and I still can't wait to go there when I make it up that way! ;)

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

Ian Borders — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:46:17 -0000

Generally speaking, when you pay legal wages, growing locally on land that costs near $250K / acre or leases at $2500 / acre or more, it's going to cost more than say 'Major Organic Co Name Here' grows a majority of their stuff in Yuma, AZ and Mexico at illegal wages and also sells so much that they make a ton of money by selling huge quantity at smaller profit margins - You can see why it can cost more to grow small scale and local.

I agree that small family farms are more productive and profitable in the sense that they might make a 25% profit margin on product over a larger farms 10% margin - but the small organic family farmers we deal with everyday here in AZ, definitely live on the very low end of the middle class on 50 acres of farmable land.

I can tell you beyond doubt from dealing with small local farmers, that the tax breaks and subsidies for them are a very tiny fraction of what the larger companies get.

Re: http://www.welikeitraw.com/rawfood/2008/12/investing-in-co.html

elasticfate — Fri, 19 Dec 2008 17:27:25 -0000

Thanks for the info, Ian. That's really interesting, as I have worked for a farm-to-table dinner company for quite some time and all the family farms we were on in California were doing quite well, and all my studies in Agro-Businesss show that small scale family farms are much more productive and profitable, so it's nice to hear another side to expand my knowledge base and get the bigger picture from all sides.

I do have a question - would they also be getting large tax write-offs for a lot of their costs, since the restaruant is their main business? Just curious. I know property in NorCal is really, really expensive, but I know little about business tax stuff.